W: What are three ways that leadership in e-businesses differs from leadership in traditional bricks and mortar businesses?

JG: I think it’s reflected in a lot of what’s going on. With e-commerce and e-businesses, the market conditions are changing all the time. We see this especially in our space. Moves by competitors and new entrants in the marketplace are happening at such an incredibly fast rate that it requires frequent adjustments to your strategy and your tactics. So to lead an e-business effectively I think you really need to be very flexible. This isn’t the type of business where you can develop a five-year plan or really even a one-year plan and stick to that plan in terms of building and growing it. It requires vision and it requires a strong idea of the direction you want to head, but you have to be willing to make frequent adjustments to the course that you’re on and how you’re going to get there. In many cases, especially our own, you’re really plotting out a course for the very first time. It’s not like it’s a very well established industry or space and you’re just jockeying for position within an established space. You’re helping to develop it and promote not just your own business but also potentially trying to promote the creation of a new market.

Three ways that leadership in e-business differs. One would be the requirement to be extremely flexible. Two would be.. I think you need to have an ability to have a strong vision in terms of picturing in your mind what the world is going to be like and how your business is going to fit into that world, and then it’s a matter of really trying to put into place the building blocks to enable that to happen. So while being a strong manager in a traditional business is following a plan that’s been very well laid out, in e-business I think it’s more of building a vision of where you want to go and then quickly trying to bring the resources to bear to make that a reality.

W: As a leader, what are your top three priorities, if possible in order of importance and why?

JG: I think the most important is just organizing and motivating. As an individual you can accomplish a lot less than you can as a leader. You must have the ability to organize a number of people to work in the right direction and working in sync together. I don’t know if this is germane just to e-commerce, I think it’s probably similar across any type of business, but it’s very difficult to keep a large number of people all marching to the same drummer and working for the same goal and working well together, especially if those goals are constantly shifting and adjusting a little bit. As I mentioned before, changing market conditions make it very difficult to keep everybody moving in the same direction. So it’s keeping everybody focused, organized and motivated to work hard. I think hiring is a very high priority as well. Good people are very, very hard to find, especially in the Internet world, people with a proven track record. Spending the time that it takes to find good resources and bring them on board is investment that you just have to make. The third priority is probably a combination of things from working.. It’s both external and internal. Externally, working with your investors, with your business partners and with the press and the public to try and communicate what you’re achieving as an organization, to keep the momentum going, to keep the support flowing. I think it’s being able to manage a lot of the external contingencies that are out there and keep them supporting the direction you’re headed into.

W: What are the necessary qualities of a successful leader in the Internet economy?

JG: I think stamina is one. It’s funny but it’s true. This is something that really demands a lot and you have to be willing to give up other parts or other things in your life. One of the drawbacks is that your life becomes somewhat unbalanced. The Internet economy is extremely competitive. If you look at how much money is out there funding all these startups and new ideas, and everybody is in some way, shape or form either a potential competitor or a potential partner for you, and it just really takes a lot out of you to be able to continue to try to be at the forefront of that and continue to try and move forward faster than the next guy. I think we need to be a communicator because communication is the grease within the organization that allows it to move forward quickly. You need to be able to not just communicate in terms of one on one, but to be able to facilitate communication across the organization. You have to be comfortable with change. Things are happening all the time that constantly require you to reevaluate where you’re headed, reevaluate what you’re doing today and that can be somewhat disconcerting. It feels like you’re trying to build a house on land that’s not entirely stable at times. There are a lot of emotional ups and downs in a startup. I don’t know if it’s unique to the Internet, but I think you need to have partly stamina and partly conviction in your belief, in your vision. If you really have a strong conviction in your belief I think your charisma and your ability to communicate that will magnify and it just comes across much more strongly. I think a lot of our people have been attracted not just because of the financial upside, but also because they can see how much we believed in what we were trying to do. They could see the potential of what we were trying to do, and I think they’re very attracted to something like that. I think that’s partly charisma but I think it’s born of your conviction in the idea that you’re trying to make a reality.

Actually, can I add one more thing to that? Non-hierarchical. We had a person working for us, a very, very successful person who had worked all over the world for many, many large companies, a very senior executive. We hired him into the organization because he had such a phenomenal background, and he really struggled. He had the old school way of doing business in that "all information from people below me has to flow through me so it can be filtered before it goes to the people above me." Really trying to keep tight reins on the individuals and the command control approach. That just doesn’t work in this type of environment. The kinds of people that you hire are the kind that are going to revolt and rebel against that kind of structure. It’s one that… You need the organization to adapt quickly to changes in the market, and it’s one that just won’t work. It was very interesting because it was somebody who’d been an extremely successful person in the non Internet space and he really struggled in an environment like this.

W: In going forward, what criterion would you use to measure success?

JG: I think there’s a number of different metrics that we use to try to measure success. For us it’s things like the number of customers acquired, revenue, different deliverables being met such as different improvements on the product or migration to a new platform, different funding milestones, striking different strategic deals, relationships that help propel the organization forward. The number of employees that we have.. I don’t know if you can really use that as a measure of success but I guess it can be used as an indicator of where you are. I think there are lots of different quantitative measures that we try to use in terms of judging where we are and where we’re going. Qualitatively, how are we going to measure success? I think it’s partly the level of morale in the organization, how motivated people are, how happy they are to come to work.

W: What is your vision and how do you get other people excited about your vision?

JG: I think the keys to getting people motivated are to enlighten them on the direction of the company and to help them see how their role will have a significant impact on potentially changing the world or having an impact on a tremendous number of people. It’s all about building a new business. It’s all about creating something for the very first time, and trying to deliver something, a very new service, in a whole different way. In our situation, we are dedicated to trying to change the way people receive and pay their bills. It’s a necessary task. It’s one that most people very much dislike, and we’re dedicated to trying to enable people to really regain control over their financial lives by receiving and paying their bills a whole different way. That’s sort of what we’re focused on today. We’re laying the groundwork on how it’s going to evolve into a very different organization and very different mission, but one that still follows that same philosophy of trying to make consumer’s lives better, trying to make it easier for them to accomplish their daily tasks. I think what gets people so excited about working for an e-commerce company is being able to be a part of building a business for the very first time, and the potential for significant financial rewards.. It’s also all about learning and really being in the forefront of developing something new. What would make me feel the most satisfied is if after a year at this, or two years at this, it turns out that we’re not successful – and that’s very possible and there’s certainly significant risks involved in a startup. But if after a year or two of working hard and really trying, for some reason we’re just aren’t able to succeed, if employees of this company look back and say, "You know, even knowing that this thing failed, I learned so much, I had such a great time working hard with such bright, intelligent, motivated people that I think that was such a phenomenal experience in my life I would go back and do that all over again, even knowing that it didn’t work out for the best at the end." It’s the kind of culture and the kind of environment that we’re trying to create here. It’s one where people are challenged, are given significant responsibility, and are really called upon to rise up and deliver, potentially in ways they’ve never done before

W: How do you build a leadership team?

JG: John and I were the first two founders and it’s grown. We’re continuing to try to build this team. I think a common philosophy and a common way of working and getting things done, and a shared excitement over the vision and the opportunity for us are some of the key things. For us, really making sure that you’re hiring the right people has been extremely important. We spend a tremendous amount of time in interviews with our people at all levels of the organization, especially the senior team. You have to make sure not only that they have the technical abilities and the expertise to be able to deliver on their area of the business, they also have to have a personality that’s going to fit well within the culture that we’re trying to build here.

W: Do you find motivating and retaining people that have been in one versus the other are different?

JG: No, I think when it comes down to it, everybody’s motivated by similar things. At one level I think it’s the potential for financial rewards, but to be honest I think that’s not the primary motivator for most people. I think being part of something new and different and trying to build something successful, trying to do something for the very first time, being placed in a position of responsibility where you have a significant role in helping shape the company or helping lead a specific part of the organization – and help to create it to. For us, being a start up, most of the things that we’re doing we’re doing for the very first time, so it involves not just looking at an existing process and then tweaking it or changing it or modifying it, but it’s trying to figure out how we’re going to do this for the very first time. I think it’s those types of challenges and those types of roles and responsibility that really motivates a lot of people to come here. I think it’s a certain type of personality as well. This is not for everybody out there. I think you can clearly see it when you’re interviewing people and you clearly see it from the types of people that are attracted to this. Some of the older companies within the space, like citysearch and eToys, and some of those that have gone public and are now more mature as an organization, you’re seeing a lot of those people who were a part of those organizations in the early stages leaving and joining other start ups. I think it’s indicative of the type of people who very much enjoy that startup environment, the lack of structure, the craziness, and once it becomes a more mature organization they tend to be not as excited and motivated by it. The potential rewards are just as great and the pay is just as high, but I think they’re looking for something more. They like that starting from scratch and building something for the first time, and so you see them cycling back into some of the younger companies and some of the newer startups.

W: So as far as integrating, it sounds like a lot of times with these people in this environment requires some initiate on the individual to integrate themselves and to sort of really make their own space.

JG: Absolutely. I think to be successful in this world you really need to be a self starter, you have to be comfortable with ambiguity and lack of structure, and you have to be able set direction and really be able to plan and work your own day. Things are happening so quickly and there’s such a lack of resources. Often you’re given a problem, you’re responsible for this part of our organization and it’s your job to then figure out what’s the most important and how do I get that done. The biggest thing we struggle with is focus and there are a million things we can do today and everybody has a plate that is much bigger than their ability to consume it in any given day, so the key is figuring out what is the most important thing to focus on first and then focus on that, get that done, and get that done very well and then get on to the next thing. There are so many demands on people’s time that they have to be able to manage their own part of the organization and really be able to provide and build structure around that.

W: How do you compensate your employees?

JG: We firmly believe that everybody should be an owner and so from the CEO on down to the mail fulfillment clerk, everybody owns stock in this organization. We provide stock packages and the options that vest over a four-year period. We have relatively aggressive and progressive vesting. There’s certainly a salary component end, health and welfare benefits as well. The salary is certainly below market of what somebody could earn at an offline company, but we believe that you’re going to more than make it up in stock. Where you start is not necessarily where you’re going to end up. We aggressively reward the star performers. We don’t have formalized reviews and "Hey, if you do this you get X amount of increase in pay or stock" but we do try to be pretty proactive in rewarding the high performers and give both cash and stock rewards.

W: What kind of culture exists at your company? How did you establish this "tone" and why did you institute this particular type of culture?

JG: We’re trying to build a culture of very, very hard workers, people who clearly understand this is not a 9 to 5 job and it’s really going to put some significant demands upon your time, but while you’re here and because you’re spending so much time at work, we want to make sure that people are enjoying themselves, having a great time, are really feeling like it’s not work but it’s so much to be there that I’d rather be there than anywhere else. I’ve had many, many people come up to me, especially some of those who come from outside of the Internet world, and it’s very interesting, they’ll work 12 hours and they’ll be like, ‘Oh my God, where did the day go. I can’t believe it. This has been so exciting I don’t mind it at all." It’s that kind of environment where people are just so into it that the time flies by and they feel like they’re really learning and progressing. If you look at the types of people that we try to hire, those that come from an Internet company or from the Internet world versus those that have come from an offline company… Those that come from the Internet world tend to hit the ground running and are just superstars. Those that come from a more traditional business tend to take quite a bit longer to get up to speed – not to say that some of them aren’t superstars as well – but it’s just a whole different way of managing yourself, of dealing with the lack of structure that there is in an environment like this, dealing with the rapid pace of change. It usually takes them a while to figure out how to operate in this different environment.

W: Given the capabilities that you have described in terms of being successful and essential qualities for success in the space, how or where have you have been able to develop and acquire these qualities?

JG: I think I have grown tremendously since we started this. I think Wharton was a fantastic training ground to really lay the groundwork and open your eyes and allow you to realize the potential. This is really much more in the game and enabling you to really develop those skills. I think it’s a chance to develop being a better communicator, a better organizer, a motivator to being able to structure problems, to solve problems quickly. One of the things we didn’t dwell enough on at Wharton was organizational structure. I guess we did but I must not have been paying attention enough because organizational structure is, I think, exceptionally critical to the success of the business. The way that you’re structured will dictate a lot about how effective you are in working together and where they’re going to focus and how they’re going to focus, goal setting and setting firm, hard objectives. Managing the organization to make sure you reach them is also critical.

It’s actually something we struggle with and we spend a lot of time looking at other Internet businesses and how they’re organized, do your product folks communicate with your marketing folks, with your technical folks? Where should they be housed, how should they be working together? Do you have cross functional teams, but the guys who are coding hate to be around the marketing guys, they’re talking all the time. They want to be in a quiet environment where they can focus and think. You have very different types of personalities as well, from a marketing person to a tech person. So when you live it it’s really, really interesting to see the human dynamics that come into play.